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Old 07-29-2013, 03:59 AM   #11
oldnorseman
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Are you talking about a supposed "Messiah"? There is no letter "J" in Hebrew or Arabic, so no, no one existed with that name. In Hebrew his name would probably be Yahshua meaning the salvation of YAHWAH. In Greek his name would read as Iesous. The "I" has a "Y" sound and the "s" is added to the end to signify a male name. In Latin the "J" letter has a "Y" sound. Letters Anne Bolelyn wrote to the Pope refer to the Messiah as "Jesu". Boelyn and Henry VIII were fluent in Latin and would have known the sound of his name. The names Kyrios and Theos in Greek have been translated in English as Lord and God, but in reality were just the names of local deities of the manuscript writters. The common accepted practice in translating manuscripts was to insert the local deities names. Martin Luther translated Theos from the Greek as Gott. Gott was a central figure in Old Germanic mythology. In Hebrew the highest holy one was referred as Elohim which is actually plural, or Eloha(Allah in Arabic), or the poetic El hence the endings in the names Samuel, Michael, ect. Interesting enough, the 1604 King James Translaters decided to replace the Hebrew names for common people with English names. They really hated the Jews and were not very good at translating Hebrew so they used the Latin Vulgate instead. The chances of a person existing that claimed to be the "Messiah" is possible, the chances his name was "Jesus" is not.

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Old 07-29-2013, 04:28 AM   #12
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The chances of a person existing that claimed to be the "Messiah" is possible, the chances his name was "Jesus" is not.
"Jesus" is a complete fraud, and 1,700 years of Jewish brainwashing can never make him real.

Celsus. Roman philosopher (c. 2nd century, A.D.)--the first ancient author of a whole book attacking Christianity.
Just as the charlatans of the cults [of Cybele, Mithras, etc.] take advantage of a simpleton's lack of education to lead him around by the nose, so too with the Christian teachers: they do not want to give or to receive reasons for what they believe. Their favorite expressions are "Do not ask questions, just believe!" and: "Your faith will save you!" "The wisdom of the world," they say, "is evil"; "to be simple is to be good."

And how can one overlook the fact that Christian teachers are only happy with stupid pupils--indeed scout about for the slow-witted. . . . And to the scum that constitutes their assemblies, they say "Make sure none of you ever obtains knowledge, for too much learning is a dangerous thing; knowledge is a disease for the soul, and the soul that acquires knowledge will perish."

Let's assume for the present that he [Christ] foretold his resurrection. Are you ignorant of the multitudes who have invented similar tales to lead simple-minded hearers astray? It is said that Zamolxis, Pythagoras' servant, convinced the Scythians that he had risen from the dead, having hidden himself away in a cave for several years; and what about Pythagoras himself in Italy! ---or Rhampsinitus in Egypt. . . . What about Orpheus among the Odrysians, Protesilaus in Thessaly, and above all Herakles and Theseus?

It is equally silly of these Christians to suppose that when their God applies the fire (like a common cook!) all the rest of mankind will be thoroughly roasted, and that they alone will escape unscorched--not just those alive at the time, mind you, but (they say) those long since dead will rise up from the earth possessing the same bodies as they did before. I ask you: Is this not the hope of worms?

It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie, and that your fables have not been well enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction. I have even heard that some of your interpreters, as if they had just come out of a tavern, are onto the inconsistencies and, pen in hand, alter the original writings three, four, and several more times over in order to be able to deny the contradictions in the face of criticism.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #13
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Just the idea that mondern churches refuse to use the names that would have been used in the bibical age is proof of the fallacy of religion. If christians were concerned with truth they wouldn't continue to change things. I am an atheist. I don't believe in some conspiracy to brainwash everyone into believing a certain religious belief, certainly not by a group of people like the jews. After the ground work was set, I think the churches honestly believed they were following the work of a creator. Since many of them were not very learned in science, and not very much real science was available in the 3rd or 4th century to dispute their beliefs, I believe these people were following what they thought was truth. What is very disgusting today is the amount of science available that openly disputes the creation myth, many of the supposed miracles of the bible and the blatent lies told by the churches. Even more alarming is that people think a group of people are organized enough to conspire to fool everyone into following them and giving them money while their rogue priest molest children. At some point in life everyone attains a life code, a set of rules and beliefs that works for them. Maybe, for some individuals, the set of rules continues to evolve as more knowledge is attained in philosophy and science. Others continue to dig a deeper hole with the spade that blames others for their self imposed limitations. Once you find your way in the world you realize that only you and no one else controls your destiny.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:13 AM   #14
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Then let's have a little fun, shall we?

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. Well, it's mostly my fault for not having typed that very well and making it sound like I do believe Jesus was in fact real. What I meant to say is that I don't believe he was in fact real, but that it is POSSIBLE that he did actually exist somehow, somewhere. Just not in the same way christards and other religious 'tards claim he existed. Just like it's POSSIBLE that there's alien life out there somewhere in the universe. Neither of which have ever been proven to be true, but neither can they be proven false either.

I only think that there COULD have been some random, regular mortal man with the name of Jesus who went about doing good deeds for those around him, taught those who followed him, and prayed for mankind's sins and betterment. Those are things that ANY person can do, have done, and currently do. It doesn't require one to be some magical super being with holy, mystical powers to do such things, because they don't violate the laws of nature and physics like 99% of what's claimed about Jesus.

I know there's no archeological evidence of any kind that substantially corroborates anything that has ever been claimed about Jesus with any degree of reasonable credibility, but that doesn't mean that it can be proven with 100% certainty that 2000 + years ago there was never a man named Jesus who walked the Earth, and could've done SOME of the physically, humanly possible things that have been said about him.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #15
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William Pierce, who was not a Christian, did acknowledge the existence of Jesus in "Our Cause". Not only did he acknowledge his existence, he mentioned him as a man who ascended the upward path and fought the Jews. Anyone who says differently is in denial, because it is right there near the end of the speech. I don't think that he was the type of man to say something like that to attract Christians to his organization. So, if he said it, he believed it, and I agree with him.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:09 AM   #16
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You misunderstood what I was trying to say. Well, it's mostly my fault for not having typed that very well and making it sound like I do believe Jesus was in fact real. What I meant to say is that I don't believe he was in fact real, but that it is POSSIBLE that he did actually exist somehow, somewhere. Just not in the same way christards and other religious 'tards claim he existed.
No worries.

In a nutshell, early Xtianity did not have a 'human' Jesus, the Gospels did not come about until years later. There were well over 120 Gospels.

There is nothing original in Xtianity, just about everything in the biography and philosophy of this Jewish super hero can be found prior to him.

No contemporary historian, writer, statesmen, no one, has ever heard of anyone even remotely resembling this super kike.

It's the Big Lie.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Clinton Adolph Seeber View Post
William Pierce, who was not a Christian, did acknowledge the existence of Jesus in "Our Cause". Not only did he acknowledge his existence, he mentioned him as a man who ascended the upward path and fought the Jews. Anyone who says differently is in denial, because it is right there near the end of the speech. I don't think that he was the type of man to say something like that to attract Christians to his organization. So, if he said it, he believed it, and I agree with him.
How long did you say you have been reading and listening to Dr. Pierce?


Yes, in the early years, Dr. Pierce paid lip service to Xtianity. But that stopped later on.

In the original National Alliance membership handbook, Dr. Pierce lists Xtianity as an opposed ideology.

Start another thread and title it, "Did Dr. Pierce believe Jesus existed?"
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:56 PM   #18
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How long did you say you have been reading and listening to Dr. Pierce?


Yes, in the early years, Dr. Pierce paid lip service to Xtianity. But that stopped later on.

In the original National Alliance membership handbook, Dr. Pierce lists Xtianity as an opposed ideology.

Start another thread and title it, "Did Dr. Pierce believe Jesus existed?"
Sorry, dude; I just like talking about Dr. Pierce.
I could sit here and have an hours long conversation with you about him.
I don't think he ever really paid lip service to Christianity. In "Our Cause" he attacked several points of Christianity, including their belief in an anthropomorphic deity.
Obviously modern day establishment Christianity was/is opposed to Dr. Pierce's Cosmotheism. That goes without saying. But , even later on, in a 1999 or 2000 ADV broadcast, I heard him say that he did not believe that there is anything inherently wrong with Christian doctrine, but the way the preachers interpret the scriptures for their masses is wrong.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Clinton Adolph Seeber View Post
William Pierce, who was not a Christian, did acknowledge the existence of Jesus in "Our Cause". Not only did he acknowledge his existence, he mentioned him as a man who ascended the upward path and fought the Jews. Anyone who says differently is in denial, because it is right there near the end of the speech. I don't think that he was the type of man to say something like that to attract Christians to his organization. So, if he said it, he believed it, and I agree with him.
That's quite a stretch, Clinton. Here's the paragraph and line (highlighted) to which you refer:
---

Our purpose is the purpose for which the earth was born out of the gas and the dust of the cosmos, the purpose for which the first primitive amphibian crawled out of the sea three hundred million years ago and learned to live on the land, the purpose for which the first race of men held themselves apart from the races of sub-men around them and bred only with their own kind. It is the purpose for which men first captured lightning from the sky, tamed it, and called it fire; the purpose for which our ancestors built the world's first astronomical observatory on a British plain more than 4,000 years ago. It is the purpose for which Jesus, the Galilean, fought the Jews and died 2,000 years ago; the purpose for which Rembrandt painted; the purpose for which Shakespeare wrote; and the purpose for which Newton pondered. Our purpose, the purpose with which we must become obsessed, is that for which the best, the noblest, men and women of our race down through the ages have struggled and died whether they were fully conscious of it or not. It is the purpose for which they sought beauty and created beauty; the purpose for which they studied the heavens and taught themselves Nature's mysteries; the purpose for which they fought the degenerative, the regressive, and the evil forces all around them; the purpose for which, instead of taking the easy path in life, the downward path; they chose the upward path, regardless of the pain, suffering, and sacrifice that this choice entailed.
---

He said the part about evolution, about the amphibian crawling out of the sea 300 million years ago, at the beginning of that paragraph. Do you believe that, Clinton? If not, why not? Dr. Pierce said it.

Our Cause is an important speech, given in 1976, Clinton. I was inspired by it as you are today, but not because Dr. Pierce mentioned Jesus as he did, in passing. Look at that sentence in its context. and remember that this was written by him 37 years ago. Soon after It went to work for Dr. Pierce in 1992, knowing how he felt about the adverse impact of Christianity on the race, I asked him specifically why he thought he had to add that, to me, repulsive sentence about the Galilean. I still remember exactly where we were standing at the time, and his defensive reaction: "Well, Goddamn, Will, what am I supposed to do now, do the speech over and leave that sentence out?" There were too many audiotapes in circulation by then to redo Our Cause and leave that part out. Believe me, he wished he hadn't put that reference to Jesus in that speech Me, too. because I wouldn't have to be explaining to you 37 years after the fact that Dr. Pierce didn't "believe" in Jesus. Get that idea out of your neck, OK?

Like ColonelHogue said, Dr. Pierce evolved in his thinking from those early days, a time when he considered himself[ an atheist. 1978 is considered the year Dr. Pierce first founded Cosmotheism, which certainly never mentions your mythical Jesus, so forget the notion that he "believed" in Jesus. He did not. Jesus was an historical example, like Rembrandt, Shakespeare and Newton. Even so, that 1976 speech shows that Dr. Pierce was already formulating his Cosmotheist ideology.

Dr. Pierce was also in the John Birch Society briefly -- mainly because that was about the only "patriotic" game in town back in the 1960s -- but he came to rebuke JBS, as did Dr. Oliver, Ben Klassen, even Bob Mathews, who were also JBS members until they figured out the Jew and Christianity were primary problems.

Dr. Pierce told me that as a teenager he even sold Bibles one summer door-to-door to make some extra money. That hardly made him a Bible believer.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:21 PM   #20
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More than ok. I am done with playing second fiddle with movement oldies well past their expiration date.

Will Williams said that I do not qualify to be a member of his club house because I never met William Pierce. That is his prerogative. Don't expect me to stand on the sidelines waiting year after year for them to get their act together.

I moved on. No hard feelings.

Competition is good, they say. We'll see in a few years who has it, and who doesn't.
ColonelHogue, I didn't say you couldn't be a member of my club house because you'd never met Dr. Pierce. It might have something to do with the instability of your attitude -- hot one minute, cold the next. That sort of bipolar behavior tends to make other club members uncomfortable, you know.

I get the feeling you are referring to me as the oldie way past his expiration date. That's no way to gain entrance to my club house.
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Our task is not to persuade a numerical majority of the American population that we are right but rather to build the numerical minority of those whose values coincide with ours into a majority of will and determination.
-Dr. William L. Pierce, National Alliance Founder, at NA's 1st General Convention September, 1978
http://williamlutherpierce.blogspot.com/
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