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Old 06-09-2013, 04:32 AM   #1
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Default Will We Be A White Movement Or Xtian One? We Cannot Be Both, Part III....

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Old 06-09-2013, 04:40 AM   #2
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Will Williams, VNN, 12/24/2007
http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=697196&postcount=113

oil & vinegar
I posted this (unformatted) ramble on the "fumagation" thread, but it's more appropriate here:
---------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Crowe
I myself am an athiest and have big problems with christianity, especially the egalitarian aspect of it. But I wouldn't want to ban a white racialist who happens to be christian. I believe a lot of klan members are christian.
Actually that's not my point. There's nothing wrong with having a hardline core or standard. VNN is certainly one of the most hardcore WN sites there is. My point was that during the 3 years that I've been on here, Linder always described this forum as a "free speech" forum. If only speech that is allowed is a very narrowly defined ideology, then fine but it should not be labeled as free speech. I'm always of the viewpoint that political speech should not be censored. I just have a visceral reaction to it.

Thank you for your reply, Jim.

I'd be the last to deny you your freedom to express yourself. I would prefer you state why you consider yourself an atheist, why you reject Xianity rather than why you think we rational "non-believers" should play patty-cake with the irrational, hostile "believers." Is it just that you have come to embrace the Rodney King school of revolutionary thought?: "why can't we all just get along?" I see a lot of that here at VNNF. What a lovely, special plan that is.

What I'm saying is that those who hold that Nature-based hard line on race that you acknowledge should have their own counsels, their own places to build consensus among themselves without interference from the Bible-thumpers and cross lighters that you seem to put such stock in. The Ku Klux Klan? Give me a break, Jim. They can have their Jesus-lovin' cross lightings free from those of us who prefer an approach that's grounded in REALITY. Should we not be accorded the same by them? For a while we had VNNF as a near refuge from them, but no more.

Where is our gathering place now? It's not on atheist Web sites because atheists are not race-thinkers; they simply do not believe in the other fellow's spooks. They pretty much believe in nothing. "Atheist" is another derogatory Jew buzzword which I'll never stoop to use to describe either myself or my comrades.

We used to have Dr. Pierce's National Alliance with it's Cosmotheistic spiritual aspect, and, though it had its flaws, was building nicely into a monolithic movement apart from the hymn-singing herd. We were not allied with "the movement," as represented by VNN and Stormfront and anyone else that welcomes in incompatible elements that disrupt and undermine cohesion, solidarity.

One of the first things stumblebum bullies Gliebe/Walker did after hijacking NA, however, was to remove those five pages from the National Alliance Membership Handbook (p.46-51) that addressed Xianity as an ideology in direct opposition to that of our Alliance's. They removed that which had held us together, that set us apart. They decided their way was better than our Founder's. Those who went along with this and defended the betrayers of what was arguably Dr. Pierce's most important policy, no matter how long they did so -- but the longer, the worse -- should hang their heads in shame for that dishonorable decision to go along to get along.

Gliebe/Walker became my enemy by that reprehensible, unilateral decision alone. Others thought this move was smart, that it would bring in more supporters with a Xian-friendly outreach. Did it?

Roper did the same with his White Revolution, as did Strom/Gaede & Co. with their National Vanguard; then Nationalist Coalition followed suit. Now, I suspect, this latest splinter of a splinter of a splinter incarnation, European Americans United, follows the same big tent approach rather than fall back and regroup around the remnant that stubbornly holds to Dr. Pierce's hard line vanguard approach. Why didn't these erstwhile Alliance members just join the Counsel of Conservative Citizens and build that up rather than mirror CoCC with yet another Xian-friendly conservative umbrella group? What differentiates Gliebe's "new" NA from CoCC now?

I believe Gliebe has joined with Dr. Pierce's most bitter rival, Willis Carto, to some extent. Try to imagine Dr. Pierce's opinion of such a drastic compromise of his hard won, fundamental principle. That's right, it's unimaginable.

What's lacking today is Dr. Pierce's approach. The Jew Bible, worship of the imaginary Abrahamic god and of his mythical bastard son, has no place in a serious White resistance movement that focuses on near absolute Jew control of our so-called Judeo-Xian civilization. There is no such thing as "positive Xianity"; not for our purposes there's not. Xianity is an opposed ideology. Period! It's Jewish at its core. How can we reasonaby expect to de-judaize our kinsmen by feeding them thin Judaic pabulum rather than the rare red meat of strict racial loyalty that they need for nourishment?

Mr. Linder can have his experimental free speech forum. But eventually those here who don't care to associate with pimply-faced anonymous cybernazis, outmoded and hostile Xian Kluckers, Xian Identity nutcases, and "judeo-Xians" -- those like us who left the NA AND VNN in disgust -- because of this revoltingly disastrous "big tent of unity" with the Vastor Pissers of the world, pissing on us, telling us how we'll burn in Jewish hell if we don't take his pale kike on a stick into our hearts, or whatever -- we will regroup. We will do so around our hard line core standard and put the conehead Kluckers in our rearview mirrors once and for all. "No Xians or Jews allowed" will be the implicit standard, as the explicit "No Jews Allowed" set the NSDAP apart from the Social Democrats' (SPD) and communists' that were competing for support of the German people's hearts and minds in 1920 - 1930s Germany.

It's not just the vocal Kluckers and Xian "Nazis" who will be ineligible, but known, incorrigible subversives/smear artists like Commander ASSWIPE and Co., Tubby Covington & Co., etc., styling themselves as National Socialist leaders. How in hell can anything be built with these psychotic, constitutional liars and shit disturbers in our midst? It ain't going to happen, Jim.

Mr. Linder has created a Frankenstein monster by insisting on throwing together two entirely contradictory world views, two insoluble elements; Xian patriots who worship the Jew's tribal god (oil) with hardline biological race-fighters (vinegar) and expecting "unity" of thought and purpose. This thread makes that point in spades. I have to thank Mr. Linder for allowing me to say that here. He has banned me for saying these things before. He may ban me again.

The fact is, Bible-believers must accommodate themselves to our a strict Race First ideology because we will never join with their nonsensical, antithetical ideology that "we are the true Jews of the Bible and Yahweh will save us." That's no better than the screwy evangelical "end times" crowd, the crazy white Xian Zionists who worship everything Judaic and deny our race.
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:17 AM   #3
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fred O'Malley View Post

The thrust of the anti-christian WN movement, is that of race mixing.

Your statement barely scratches the surface regarding the biological racialists' world view. Even if we were able to put an end to all race mixing, we still are faced with a much deeper problem of the poor genetic quality of Whites today. Here is a primer for you:

From National Vanguard Magazine Issue No. 86, May 1982:

Eugenics: the Upward Path
By Jan Keown

How many "white Xtians" today will have the moral courage of Roman statesman Seneca? Or to at least help prevent those with inferior genetic stock from out breeding those of superior genetic stock?

Quote:

And we may with reasonable safety assume that the earliest Europeans possessed the healthy pragmatism regarding defective specimens of their own kind which is usual among primitive tribesmen of other races even today: useless mouths were a burden which the noble savage was uninclined to support. The Roman statesman Seneca stated the case for these primitive eugenicists when he wrote, in the first century of our own era, “We drown the weakling and the monstrosity. It is not passion, but reason, to separate the useless from the fit.”




An excellent book on the history on the development of mankind and a call for the up breeding of our race is The Future of Man by Robert Klark Graham.

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Old 06-09-2013, 05:29 AM   #4
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Great post Smoke! Yes, blood is our religion, but it always has been until post ..'45 when the mixing of racial blood started to gain ground as the 'new norm' in the following decades after V2. And I read Will's letter as well..very good btw..

Nature is the core of the movement. I'll be pushing more for natures will than the blind faith in personas. Never, would I advocate to kneel and pray before Caesar, but only acknowledge and advocate the life force, hence..the 'yin' and 'yang'.

What we call 'God' is much greater than any living, deceased, personal, or, globally collective savior. And, atheism is a defeatist ideology and a great trap that needs to be avoided.
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:43 AM   #5
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Quote: Originally Posted by John52 View Post

And, atheism is a defeatist ideology and a great trap that needs to be avoided.

Atheism alone is not an opposed ideology.

National Alliance Handbook

2.d. Opposed Ideologies


http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/v1/index168.htm

Every member should not only understand the ideology of the National Alliance, but he also should have at least a passing acquaintance with the ideologies of those opposed to us. A brief synopsis of seven racially destructive ideologies -- egalitarianism, feminism, individualism, humanism, materialism, Christianity, and New Ageism -- is presented below. In studying these synopses the member should keep in mind the fact that most people are not ideologues: their espousal of one or another of these hostile ideologies does not mean that they have thought carefully about the ideas they are claiming as their own. Usually people "inherit" an ideology along with the rest of their cultural environment: a person usually does not choose to be a Catholic or a Protestant, for example, but simply adopts unquestioningly the beliefs of the people closest to him. In some cases people have chosen an ideology in response to some internal problem -- the arrested emotional development which characterizes many individualists, for example. More often they are simply being ideologically fashionable: their only attachment to a particular ideology is that it is currently fashionable among their peers, and they would with equal fervor support an opposite ideology if that became fashionable instead.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:57 AM   #6
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Quote: Originally Posted by Smoky View Post

Atheism alone is not an opposed ideology.

National Alliance Handbook

2.d. Opposed Ideologies


http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/v1/index168.htm

Every member should not only understand the ideology of the National Alliance, but he also should have at least a passing acquaintance with the ideologies of those opposed to us. A brief synopsis of seven racially destructive ideologies -- egalitarianism, feminism, individualism, humanism, materialism, Christianity, and New Ageism -- is presented below. In studying these synopses the member should keep in mind the fact that most people are not ideologues: their espousal of one or another of these hostile ideologies does not mean that they have thought carefully about the ideas they are claiming as their own. Usually people "inherit" an ideology along with the rest of their cultural environment: a person usually does not choose to be a Catholic or a Protestant, for example, but simply adopts unquestioningly the beliefs of the people closest to him. In some cases people have chosen an ideology in response to some internal problem -- the arrested emotional development which characterizes many individualists, for example. More often they are simply being ideologically fashionable: their only attachment to a particular ideology is that it is currently fashionable among their peers, and they would with equal fervor support an opposite ideology if that became fashionable instead.

The basic definition of Atheism is not believing in 'God' (Sistine Chapel Image) who does not exist..

That is what basically defines an 'Atheist'....(someone who finds it fashionable) that knowing the artistic Christian lie while still believing.. (hence..the hopeless Atheist) there is nothing but death and no more. It is these people who follow a false definition of Atheism that we do not want.

You can call me an Atheist.. because I know better to believe and trust a painting of (Sistine Chapel).. an imaginary 'God'.

I am not an Atheist, but yet I am.

I know what we call a good spirit = 'God' personified.. is actually the..(for the sake of argument) 'Yang'.. is the good force that gives life, as opposed to 'Yin' which is the dark force or spirit that brings us death.

So, regardless of the established definition.. 'Atheism' is something we want to avoid.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:26 AM   #7
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For what it's worth, I believe "what ya see is what ya get" so what do you get when your eyes close for the last time?

I do believe in karma, the wheel of life, that whatever you place on the wheel eventually comes back to you.

However, I take karma a step further because I've seen it work in my own life: If you do good things for people, you get back 7 X what you gave, and if you do wrong by people, you also get 7 X that punishment.

Quote:

Atheism

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

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Old 06-10-2013, 10:02 AM   #8
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Life altering events, such as Starting school, finishing school, beginning to date, getting married, divorce, first child, first job, best job, etc., are all things which change your life in most regards.

I think this is reincarnation. You live many different lives within the one you get. I also think there might be something beyond the grave that is reincarnate in some way.

It could be dreams that I remember, but I could swear that I have lived in many periods of history. I have vivid memories of raising a family in early America, of being a small farmer in Ireland, of crossing the great plains with a covered wagon.

The main thing I believe is that I don't know and neither does anyone else.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:52 PM   #9
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.If Whites refuse to work with other Whites then we simply can not win.Smoky, you know the damage 'rev patrick' caused to the movement here in Australia. I agree with you that the zionist xtians are traitors to the White race,but not all Christians are like that,just as not all creators are like pat.By refusing to work with Christians that are WN like myself you are turning your back on millions of Whites around the world.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:06 PM   #10
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pict View Post

.If Whites refuse to work with other Whites then we simply can not win.Smoky, you know the damage 'rev patrick' caused to the movement here in Australia. I agree with you that the zionist xtians are traitors to the White race,but not all Christians are like that,just as not all creators are like pat.By refusing to work with Christians that are WN like myself you are turning your back on millions of Whites around the world.

You are referring to Shithead. No decent Creator has recognized him as one of us for a long time, if ever. He is one of Matt Hale's rejects.

I have never once said that I am unwilling to work with some Christians. What I have said is that I will no longer participate in any events where Christians are going to promote Christianity. Now, if any Christian organization is going to hold a race oriented event, without praying to some deity, then I may be interested.

One purpose of this thread is to remind those who have been around for awhile, as well as those new to the idea of racial loyalty, there is a growing segment of the loosely defined "White Movement" who's world view is based on science, history, common sense; and one does not need to join up with the Klan, Christian Identity, or the Council of Conservative Citizens, pretending to be a Christian. There is an alternative. For newbies, I am perhaps the best to private message on this forum if one is interested in learning more. If one used to be a member of the National Alliance, back when Dr. Pierce ran things, then I highly recommend that they contact Will Williams instead.

Pict, you need to understand that for many years, biological racialists like me have attended numerous meetings and rallies to support various pro-white organizations only to sit in the audience listening to some preacher telling us that they plan on using folks like me with the intention of either killing us off or banning us from the country once there is no more use for us. Ask yourself, why should I, or other biological racialist ever want to work with Christians?

Times have changed. I used to be one of the very few biological racialists among many Christians at pro-white events. Today, biological racialists, are beginning to become the majority of the pro white movement, and it would not surprise me that we will be the dominant force in the years to come.

Many of us will not forget how we were treated over the years. From here on out, it will be on our terms, not Christians. Christians will still be able to go home and worship their spook in the sky all they want, but Christianity will no longer have any bearing on the White Movement.

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